“I will continue to communicate with the RCMP until I hear the officer has been instructed to not inform your family”

The badge number, time, address,etc. just makes it easier for me to find the officer and address any potential problems; like an officer unblinkingly violating a pooners* rights and outing him to his family.”

*Pooners = johns/punters

The conversation below is from prostitution website perb.cc. The thread was started by a man (username ‘Soenn’) who pays to use prostituted women and girls in British Columbia, Canada. In January of 2014, Soenn was caught in a brothel by a police officer who threatened to inform his family. Soenn asked for help on the forum, and received it from Susan Davis (‘susi’), who offered to intervene with Burnaby RCMP and Vancouver Police Department and updated the men on her progress.

Susan Davis is a Vancouver ‘sex worker’ activist, who includes among her credentials 2008-11 membership of the Sex Industry Worker Safety Action Group, described as ‘A collaborative action group connecting Vancouver Police, sex industry workers and community organizations to address safety concerns of sex workers’; and 2012-13 membership of the City of Vancouver Task Force on Sex Work and Sexual Exploitation

One of the men thanking Susi is ‘Hatrick’, a man who uses prostituted women and girls in BC, many of whom are impoverished, homeless, drug-addicted and sometimes heavily pregnant. He is the subject of this post. Susan receives regular payment from men who profit from the sale of women. Johns also offer her financial contributions for her advocacy on their behalf. Here, Soenn offers to pay her bills if she will prevent the officer from contacting his family. 

URGENT QUESTION!!

04-Jan-2014

Perb Forum Screengrab 1.

Soenn: Hi guys, I’m very desperate. Please help me. I came by one micro this afternoon and police found this place. I was still inside. I said I just came to see my friend. He scanned my driver license and said he is going to talk to my family about this. I’m very afraid of this situation. Can anyone recommend or suggest something? What is the best for this?? Thanks in advance!?

Susi: What city did this happen in? Vancouver?

Soenn: Yes! Vancouver.

Perb Forum Screengrab 2.

Susi: Do you have the police officers badge number? Was he in uniform? Do you know why they were there? If you give me some more info I can prevent him from contacting anyone and get him into some trouble for violating the VPD’s new policy of adult consensual sex work not being a priority. Please PM me any info you have and let me work on it for you. They are not supposed to be doing this kind of thing but that does not mean they aren’t… Susie.

CJTylers: Your best bet is to work with Susie.

Soenn: Hi Susie, I don’t know his badge number and he was not in uniform. He knocked the door and show his licensed card I guess. He requested us to come out the room and he would ask just some question. I went out minutes later and he requested my driver license and asked me how much I paid. I said I came to see my friend and he scanned my driver license and told me go home and I asked him that he would call to me later. He said he is going to talk my family and my wife and I left. This is the whole story.

Susi: I need to know the time, address of the incall…this way I can pinpoint the officer before he does something. He is breaching their new policy. If there were no charges, if he was there on a complaint about noise…etc…he still has no grounds to scan your license. Maybe they were investigating something else, micros are still going to be targeted as they are businesses not operating from retail/commercial locations– even still he should not be threatening patrons in this kind of way. It is not VPD policy and he should not be going off half cocked undermining the trust building police are trying to accomplish with indoor SP’s (SP’s = ‘Service Providers’). Please pm me privately the details of where and when so it doesn’t cause the micro any problems. This way I can try to prevent your family from finding out. It was the same way for the LGTB community. the police reports about busting glory holes would read like ” married men being lured by gay men” and shit like that… its the bias of the individual officer…they get into trouble for it though….

Perb Forum Screengrab 3.

Soenn: I sent PM to you

HunkyBill: I heard that. VPD wasn’t going to be wasting their time with this. any more. Susi, can you post some info on what people should do if they get in this situation nowadays?

Perb Forum Screengrab 4.

Susi: Yes, I have to go and do something right now but will try to get it sorted out asap and report back here.

Soenn: Thank you million times. I have a lady’s phone number if you want. Let me know..

Susi: Ok, so this micro is in Burnaby which is policed by the RCMP. If it was inside the city and under the Vancouver police, I could do something but in Burnaby it’s a different story. I will still call and try to do what I can but I don’t have the contacts I have with VPD and the RCMP do not have a policy like the city of Vancouver do. I know it seems crazy to have rules so different only a few blocks apart but that’s what is going on. The RCMP have recently formed a human trafficking task force and are out to look like they are doing something about exploitation in the sex industry. I am working on a way we can promote the work and approach taken here in Vancouver to other municipalities but so far, I simply don’t have time, resources or even a a ride to get me out visit these other cities…I did meet with Surrey RCMP and organizations a couple of times but again, I cant stretch myself to thin or I can’t pay my bills.

I will make some telephone inquiries and see what I can do. Love susie

Perb Forum Screengrab 5.

Susi: I am on hold with the RCMP……

Soenn: Thank you for all your efforts. Susie! As I sent PM, if you have to move, let me know. I can offer a ride or pay your bills. I asked some lawyers and they said it is weird that RCMP will try to talk to my family. They said I don’t have to be cooperated with them and I might get the order from the court. Otherwise, nothing will be taken a action by them until then. I have no idea what RCMP will do to me. What can I expect next? Sorry for bothering a lot.

SFMIKE: Something seems to be not right about this. Maybe I missed something, but the OP made it sound like there was only one officer in the bust. That would be most unusual. And, what is this “Licensed card” that said police officer showed?

Perb Forum Screengrab 6.

Soenn: SFMIKE! I only saw one officer. Is it unusual? I didn’t see the card thing. One of SP’s in the home have a look through door hole, she said that he stand out there holding something like card not the badge in one hand and showed it to the door. I guess that is the something means police.

Tim McGee: Sorry if this hijacks the thread: How likely is it that the Foxden (also in Burnaby, not Vancouver) gets stung? Knock on wood, but it hasn’t happened to me yet when I’ve been in there. Thanks. Respectfully, Timmy

Susi: Ok, I spoke to the watch commander and he was really nice. he was not on duty when the incident happened but said he would find out who was and who the officer was who scanned your ID. I explained the situation and why it was unacceptable explaining who I was, my membership on the city of Vancouver Task Force, contribution to non-enofrcement policies at the VPD and how I testified to the missing women’s commission. I told him that in lieu of the forsaken report, we should be building trust and not undermining work to increase safety of sex workers…

He said he would have the commander who was on duty phone me to discuss what had happened and also said they would identify the officer and talk to him about his actions being harmful. I also discussed enforcement of laws which have been struck down and how there needs to be careful consideration before enforcing them anymore in light of the missing and murdered women. That’s all I have for now, I will continue to communicate with them until I hear he has been instructed to not inform your family. I know it sucks but we just have to wait and hope now.

As for the Fox Den, I think its less likely but who knows. massage parlours are being targeted in Montreal right now…they have a business license though and are not a micro. because migrant workers are more hidden working in these kind of under ground places (a result of raids against 63 amp’s before the Olympics and deportations) their working conditions are suspect so they are easy targets. I feel the conversation I had with them was respectful and productive so I will try to continue and work towards balancing policing down the lower mainland at least. I can do a lot via phone calls….

Perb Forum Screengrab 7.

Tim McGee: @susi Thank you for your quick and respectful reply.

I DO know this: The women who work at the Foxden HAVE to have a license. And, of course the Den itself has to have a business license. So hopefully if they come in, they’ll just make sure everybody’s 19 or older. Most of these women are Canadian-born and are doing this consensually (not migrant, or trafficked).

Maybe people will laugh at me (which is ok), or empathize: Once when about to enter the Den, I saw an RCMP half a block West, on foot, but I think he was trying to get red-light runners at the Kingsway and Suffolk intersection (that leads into the Metrotown garage).

Respectfully,

Timmy

Hatrick: I think the threat to call your wife was just to intimidate you, I have had several encounters with younger LE members who threatened the same to me. I told them to go ahead I didn’t give a shit, it never happened but I have wracked up a sizeable stack of Dear John letters. Some cops seem to be more rabid than others but they need proof so never admit to anything.

Tim McGee: @Hatrick There’s that key word again: “Scare.” And, I hope that’s all it is. Of course (and I don’t mean this facetiously), if one’s doing it out in the public, naked with the woman in Oppenheimer Park, well, that’s a different story. Just like, I hope, if I’m ever in the Den during a sting, the police may chew me out, but hopefully it’s “just a chewing out.” Respectfully, Timmy

way.tomuch: I like Hatrick’s advice… oh and never never give a statement to a cop ,,, that’s what your lawyer is for, tell them a statement is coming …

Perb Forum Screengrab 8.

yazoo: What’s in a Dear John letter? Is it just a please don’t feed the ducks type argument, intimidation, or something else? Also who is it from – LE, the city, some other organization? Sorry if it hijacks the thread… …just really curious

UhOh: That should be in bold, never never never give a statement to a cop before talking to a lawyer.

Tim McGee: How does “Probable Cause” factor into the hobby? (again, unless one’s doing it right out there in the public open). I’m not equating the hobby with a heinous crime like theft, drugs, or even murder, but I’ve seen true crime stories where it was SO hard to get Probable Cause on a suspect, to even get a search warrant. My point is, I hope that since the hobby is so petty in comparison, that Probable Cause will be harder to get. Then again, my hunch is, “the less heinous the crime, the easier it is to get a warrant for Probable Cause.” I’m just paranoid, that’s all. Respectfully, Timmy

Perb Forum Screengrab 9.

Soenn: Thank you for all your advice. I hope he just intimidated me. He didn’t say anything except “go home” and when I asked he would call me later, then he said he would talk to my family. Also, the lawyer wondered why he want to talk to my family, but I’m still scared. I will bring the letter to the lawyer when I get it and never never give a statement to a cop. Does anyone know how fast I get a letter? If I get the letter, do I have a bad record affect my life? Thanks a lot! Soenn

wiinky: I don’t pretend to know what’s going on here, but allow me to make a wild-ass guess.

Neighbors effectively report a nuisance. LE lights the place up, shames patrons, formally introduces themselves to Micro staff, all parties involved agree its not a cool place to be … nuisance solved. Never mind proving anything in Court … this Civil Forfeiture thing is enough to get any operators attention.

Perb Forum Screengrab 10.

VanessaofBC: I thought it was unusual when you said there was only one cop there. It made me wonder if it was a real cop, to be honest with you.

Hatrick: http://bccla.org/our_work/comments-o…-disc-program/ The DISC program and dear John letters are part of the system, you are in it if he scanned your ID, don’t worry about it the whole thing is very vague. A dear John letter is addressed to you and asks for your cooperation combating prostitution, it’s all to intimidate. Fuck em, you pays your $ you takes your chances. More info: http://www.jhscso.bc.ca/programs/popbc.html

Perb Forum Screengrab 11.

Soenn: Hi All, Thank you for all your advice and concerns. It turn out he is a fake police. Shit! I feel safe except my personal information was exposed. Dear Susie, thank you for all your efforts and times. If you need any help from me, please let me know. Thanks, Soenn

wiinky: Why do I think that the ‘fake police’ at the door where the same who started this thread ?

Perb Forum Screengrab 12.

Susi: Ok people, for the record it was a real police officer and it was not a negative visit. there is no investigation and I spoke to the officer involved who assured me he will not be contacting soenn for any reason nor will he be contacting his family. He was really nice and was sorry for the confusion. Susie

badbadboy: So Susie. I take it when confronted with this sort of situation we are to become vigilant about getting their badge number and their reason for their intervention at a private residence? My first inclination would be not to cooperate and demand an explanation about why they are actually visiting the residence. If we are “visiting a friend”, how could they involve our family and divulge any information? Isn’t divulging any personal information prejudicial to any pending case against you? Would the Crown not look upon this a a “tainted case”?

Susi: The badge number, time, address,etc. just makes it easier for me to find the officer and address any potential problems; like an officer unblinkingly violating a pooners rights and outing him to his family. We need to work on communicating with police departments and ensure they understand what is expected and what has been shown to a best practise in these cases. In this case it worked out and we located him before anything happened. the police I spoke to today – 3 separate officers – “forgot” that prostitution had been decriminalized* (*prostitution had not been decriminalized – see footnote). it was nice to hear their tones change.

I am unsure how crown would view it but you may have a point, it could be prejudicial. Maybe someone with crown experience could pipe in here? It seems like there’s a little lag time between the laws coming down and police understanding what it means. they were all really nice and polite though and I don’t think we’re looking at increased enforcement here in the lower mainland.

Perb Forum Screengrab 13.

badbadboy: Thank you. I think it is important since we are now in some sort of Grey Area where the Government is now charged with coming up with a new set of laws that we also be informed as to what our rights are and how to deal with Law Enforcement who are not aware of our rights and how they are able to deal with us.

Tim McGee: I thought that the OP, since he (to my knowledge) wasn’t soliciting in a PUBLIC place, he wasn’t breaking any laws? The laws, past and present, and likely future, are said to be very confusing and frustrating to understand. Timmy

Peaceguy: Communicating for the purposes of prostitution in a public place is one of the legal provisions overturned by the SCC. Being found in a common bawdy house is another, also overturned in the Bedford decision, and the likely grounds for the RCMP actions in the incident. A common bawdy house, as the law is written, is pretty much any place that is repeatedly used for acts of prostitution. This definition will likely need to be changed so as to pass a Charter of Rights and Freedom challenge of any revised law the Govt. may care to enact.

Perb Forum Screengrab 14.

HunkyBill: In non legalize please.

allhorsesaresamecolour: I will summarize what he wrote in simple language so the average pooner reading this will understand. There was recently a ruling in the best court in Canada which found that 1)talking to prostitutes in public should not be illegal 2)being found in house used by prostitutes should not be illegal. Before the best court in Canada made this decision, both 1 and 2 were illegal. So now the law is that doing any of these is not illegal.

vancity_cowboy: take the time to learn legalese, bill – there’s just no substitute for getting it right🙂

Perb Forum Screengrab 15.

hornygandalf: Susi deserves our heartfelt thanks for the advocacy work she does on behalf of the ladies, but also us, the clients. Thank you Susi. She also deserves more than that, and that is financial support for the stellar and very important work she is doing. There is another thread where the suggestion is made that there should be a structure or means to give her support. I would encourage all the gentleman here to consider providing financial support for Suzi as well. There is a bigger fight afoot that will affect the operations of this industry in the years ahead. The current situation is only temporary, and if we don’t want the industry made illegal and forced underground, then there will need to be significant to support for Suzi and her colleagues advocating for a better and safer legal regime.

Hatrick: Thanks Susi, guess I should ready the Trickmachine for an awesome cruisin’ season, it’s legal to pick up Ho’s on the streets. now, Yahoo!

Westcoast555: Am I correct in understanding that unless you are being arrested or detained you can politely refuse to provide ID and leave? You are legally required to produce ID only if: 1) You are operating a motor vehicle 2) You are in an establishment where liquor is being served. Is that correct? My inclination would be to politely remind the officer that you are not required to produce ID and that unless you are under arrest you would like to leave. Is that your understanding as well?

Perb Forum Screengrab 16.

Twotip: I always thought it was in your best interest to be honest with the police?

bcneil: I leave my ID in the car, bring a spare wallet with cash only. I’ve never had an SP ask me to prove I am over 19, so I don’t see the point in the risk.

Perb Forum Screengrab 17.

badbadboy: I was talking to an old friend who at that time was “affiliated” with some other bad guys. When he had left, I was confronted by undercover VPD and they demanded my ID. I refused and they stated my choice was being charged with”obstruction of justice” or showing them the ID. At the time I did not need any trouble brought my way so I gave up the ID as requested.

yagamiii: Hey susi, A buddy of mine was just caught by RCMP going down on an SP in a well known Burnaby massage parlor. He was so scared he gave up his ID to the officers. He said the cops didn’t charge him with anything, scanned everyone’s ids, and left. he’s still scared he might get outed. Does he have anything to fear? Is it gonna appear on any record that he was there? He’s now thinking of moving lol.

Perb Forum Screengrab 18.

Susi: Can you tell me in a private message which parlor and what day/time? I will call and inquire about why they took action and the purpose of the ID checks….. I don’t think he has anything to fear. generally they check id to see if anyone present is a known criminal or human trafficker/ organized crime. that would be as far as it goes. I am feeling that these kinds of intrusions into our work spaces are a real problem. ….it doesn’t happen in Vancouver but its like the RCMP are conducting “business as usual”….Please message me and tell me what you can about what happened….

rs604: Hi Susie, first of all, we would like to thank you for all the work and info. I guess I’ll just ask one question for all fellow pooners. Let’s say this happens in Burnaby. When LE come and ask for IDs, can we politely decline? Or do we get in trouble if we refuse to give our ID? What’s the correct protocol? Thanks -rs

*In December 2013 the Supreme Court of Canada had recently struck down Canada’s remaining prostitution laws, giving the government one year to create new legislation (which it did, in the form of Bill C36). However, despite the Supreme Court’s ruling and Vancouver Police Department’s own ‘not-an-enforcement-priority’ policy, the prostitution laws remained effective at the time of Soenn’s post.

Posted in Bill C36, British Columbia, Burnaby, Hatrick, johns, Sex Work Lobby, Vancouver, VPD | 1 Comment

If full decriminalization will protect women in prostitution from these men… why do these men want it?

     The Argument

The Nordic model? It won’t work. You can’t decriminalize women and girls but criminalize the men who buy sexual access to them. It drives prostitution underground and puts them at risk of violence. Decriminalize ALL aspects of the sex trade to protect women and girls against violence and exploitation.”

Human rights group Amnesty International is currently risking everything it stands for to endorse The Argument. But if The Argument is true, why do violent and exploitative men want decriminalization?

LikeRedHeads

‘LikeRedHeads’ is the name used by a man on the Toronto Escort Review Boards (TERB). He has written over 1000 posts on the site, including reviews of the women he pays for.

He is John No.9 in The Invisible Men Project (Canada). [Read the full review here]

If the Nordic model would just facilitate him doing this to women, and full decriminalization would stop him – he must support the Nordic model. Right?

Actually…

1. He petitioned against the implementation of the Nordic model in Canada (Canada’s version is known as Bill C-36).

2. He complains that criminalizing men who buy, but not the women they buy, means that prostituted women will not “lose something if they are caught with you”. If implemented then, he says it will make Canada unappealing for him. He will go somewhere else to buy, that is, to a country that where women are not protected by the Nordic model.

3. He says that the Nordic Model “could end my hobbying altogether”. Re-read his review – that comment is worth thinking about. 

Hatrick

Hatrick is the name used by a man on the Pacific and Prairie Escort Review Boards (PERB). He is the subject of this post, and has used prostituted women and girls in British Columbia for decades.

This wealthy man offers rides to poor young women and when they are in his car, talks them into prostitution; he uses impoverished and drug-addicted Native women he picks up on the streets; he uses homeless pregnant women, and he is extra rough with women as punishment for failure to perform to his liking.

Hatrick is John No. 8 in The Invisible Men Project (Canada): [Read the original post here. More of his reviews here and here.]

Hatrick’s actions are criminalized in Canada thanks to Bill C-36 but some police forces, one of which is Vancouver Police Department, are not enforcing it. So Hatrick is free to continue until Vancouver Police or Surrey RCMP decide they care enough about women to enforce the law.

In December 2013 however, before the current law was drafted, the Supreme Court of Canada struck down the country’s remaining prostitution laws. This meant that full decriminalization of the sex industry would result if the government did not write the robust new legislation within a year. 

If full decriminalization would protect the women in British Columbia from this man, why did he celebrate when he thought the entire industry would be decriminalized?

His reaction:

“I guess I should ready the Trickmachine [his car] for an awesome cruisin’ season. It’s legal to pick up Ho’s on the streets now, Yahoo!”

Hungry101

Hungry101 is the username of a man who uses the Montreal Escort Review Boards (MERB). He is a fan of Montreal because young escorts are 1/2 to 1/3 of the price of the MILF’s available in the USA”. He likes travelling the world to find prostituted women/girls. 

This man knows that johns have plenty of wealth; “We Johns have big paying jobs, 401Ks, stocks and bonds. Both IRA’s and pensions…and all kinds of assets the government cannot tax us twice on”. And being a rich white man himself, he likes to help other rich white men to find the world’s poorest women. 

Hungry101 is John No.7 in The Invisible Men Project (Canada): [Read his post in full here]

Since being third world poor is key for this rich white man, he must be pro-Nordic model if it makes women vulnerable and drives them into poverty. He must also be against full decriminalization if it protects women from exploitation by men like him.

Instead, he says of Canada’s new laws:

Once the Nordic Model passes I will wait and see what the impact is and how they implement the system. I may just protest and stop coming to Canada altogether. I’ll look south of the border to hobby. I hate political correctness. A progressive law like the Nordic Model, where it is not illegal to sell and only illegal to buy, stinks of political correctness. I can see how this law would resonate with academia, the political elite, and the feminists. This is anti-white male.”

Patron

Patron is the username of another wealthy man on the Montreal Escort Review Boards (MERB). 

Like his forum friend, Hungry101, this man likes to travel to poor countries where he can spend less but get more from those he prostitutes. Patron knows that unlike rich men such as himself, women and girls in Canada don’t really benefit from prostitution. He tells the other johns, “Relatively few attractive young women really like sex well enough to be a successful prostitute and earn a lot of money. Most women have hang-ups and are just not that sexual and free spirited. Most relatively older women are shut out of this opportunity because the typical North American diet just puts too many pounds on them for them to be attractive any more”. 

Patron is John No.25 on The Invisible Men Project (Canada): [Read in full here]. 

If it’s true that laws criminalizing men would make prostituted women poorer and more vulnerable to exploitation, Patron would find it easier to get the low-price, long-term “dates” he looks for at home in Canada.

Instead, this man asks the owners of MERB, PERB and TERB to use their money to fund a legal challenge against laws that would criminalize men like him. But it is important that this should be seen by the world as coming from “sex workers”, and not the real beneficiaries – men.

He cautions;

This law will not be overturned quickly based on a suit brought by johns frustrated by their inability to openly discuss committing criminal acts. A lawsuit by sexworkers using the Bedford case as precedent is a different story”.

Jugo

Jugo is the username of a man who uses the Toronto Escort Review Boards (TERB) where he has hundreds of posts to his name, including reviews of the women he pays to use.

Jugo is John No. 6 in The Invisible Men Project (Canada). [Read the original in full here]

If decriminalizing his actions would protect women from him, and the Nordic Model would not – why did he ask other johns to write to their MP’s condemning the Nordic Model (while concealing that they are johns)?

I recommend both filling out the survey and writing an email to your MP, perhaps attaching a good article condemning the Nordic model. You do not need to state you are a hobbyist in your email.” He adds, “I like the idea of a mass “signed” statement of principles […] You can create an email address without your name, for example, using gmail. Maybe the Moderators of [MERB, PERB and] TERB can help organize this somehow.”

Going back to THAT Argument

These men know exactly what they need to sexually exploit women and girls with impunity, and it’s full decriminalization.

If you advocate for what they want, Amnesty International, your organization has failed. 

Posted in Amnesty International, Bill C36, British Columbia, Hatrick, Hungry101, johns, Jugo, LikeRedHeads, Montreal, Patron, Surrey RCMP, Toronto, Vancouver, VPD | 2 Comments

A John Called Hatrick

Case study of a man in Vancouver, British Columbia, who is acting without consequences despite being punishable under Canada’s new prostitution laws.

“Back to Surrey and cruise the Leigon, hmm nice ass on the corner and big tit’s too. It’s an older crack-ho, very impatient wants to score rock, fuck, I drop her where I find her no mood for that shit, I would have gone for the Hatrick but with someone worthy not that fuckin thing! Did learn something to-nite, 7-11’s are a good hunting ground. I picked up a real doll a few weeks back in the one at Royal Oak. Just check em out as you cruise by, if there is some hottie in there that looks like she might go, it pays to ask. You can check em out in a safe environment, all the Ho’s go in there at some point durring the nite. I will be keeping a close eye myself, happy hunting!” – read the full review

Hatrick

The author of the above review is a long-time member of prostitution website PERB.cc (Pacific and Prairie Escort Review Boards – he joined in 2004) where he writes accounts of his prolific use of prostituted women and girls under the username ‘Hatrick’.

Hatrick is a semi-retired married man with children in his 60s who lives in Surrey, British Columbia in Canada. He owns two Harley Davidsons and is part of the motorcycling community. In addition to upgrading his bike and long riding vacations along the highways of Canada and the U.S., the hobbies his friends know about include gambling, fishing, drinking and smoking marijuana. The ‘man area’ of his house/garage contains a bar, Foosball, air hockey, an old leather couch, a big screen TV, his two Harley Davidson’s, as well as a large amount of tools and mechanical equipment. 

Hatrick has used prostituted women for the last 35 years, his highest peak being a 15 year period from the 1980’s until the mid 1990’s when he averaged using 200-300 prostitutes a year. During that time he took out payday loans from Moneymart to fund his use of prostitutes and got so deeply in debt that he lost his family’s house. Hatrick has scaled back his spending considerably in recent years and mostly uses the winnings he makes from gambling in casinos around British Columbia. 

Hunting Grounds and Habits

Hatrick prefers to pick up women on the streets of Vancouver, New Westminster, Burnaby and Surrey but he also uses indoor prostitution and strip clubs. He likes to go to The Paramount Gentleman’s Club in New Westminster on Sunday nights for a 2 for 1 lap-dance before cruising the streets in the vehicle he calls his ‘trickmachine‘. The kit he keeps in his car includes a flashlight (johns call it a ‘snatchlight’) and he uses this to examine women’s genital areas for signs of venereal disease. Hatrick has Prostatitis (an enlarged prostate) following contraction of non-gonococcal urethritis ‘from letting the bitch put the rubber on, she had it on her fingers and transferred it to me.’

He explains: The light is very important because you should check out her box for warts, sores, infections, etc.’  

He also uses the flashlight to shine on women’s vaginas while he uses them; a habit that women who have encountered him may recognize him by:

‘How old are you? 21 reply, wierd when you look at her in certain way she coulda passed for 16 but I could tell she was 21…… She demanded I go to her parking spot, I did but I didn’t like it, she bitched but I took her to mine. I made a deal for flashlight pussy car fuck 2 greens [2 greens = $40]….. I shone the light and watched my dong throb it’s way into that hot lil hole….. This is what it’s all about, I was doin the “Hot young cunt” it don’t get any better than that.’ 

Like most johns, Hatrick enjoys using women who look very young:

‘…She is young and cute and she can get away with just lying there her lovely lil school girl puss did its job (she tried to rush me you are you going to cum soon). I couldn’t help but blast a load into it. Very small but sexy titties, a super nice little ass. I’m thinking if a guy sees her a few times and she warms up to you you may get more mileage, but no DATY [cunnilingus – ‘Dining at the Y’]. Was a shame cause I would love to clean that little boat out for her…’  December 2013, a Surrey motel 

If the young women don’t perform the way Hatrick wants he tells the other johns that he abuses them for it:

‘…The younger ones can be totally clueless. If they are hot however I don’t give a shit what her issues are I’m banging the crap out of her and take it out of her hide to make up for her lack of service…’ 

Pregnant women

Hatrick also loves to use pregnant women, particularly those in late term pregnancy “late term preggos are a treat”He has knowingly used at least 10 pregnant women, and in June 2005 he picked up this homeless woman on Kingsway road in Vancouver when she was 7 months pregnant, before dropping her off in the streets of Downtown Vancouver (see the lower half of the review – he goes through several women in a night). He paid her $40:

‘I felt like a dog humpin a football till I lay her on her side facing me. What a trip fucking that gigantic cunt, I tried not to put a crease in the kids head but man she had me gushing big time. I get wood just thinking about her, she lost her phone and seemed a bit lost herself, her oldman just went to jail.’ 

Native Women and Girls

Many of the prostituted in Vancouver are women and girls from Canada’s First Nations and, incidentally, British Columbia also has the highest number of missing and murdered Indigenous women of any other province or territory in Canada (Inter-American Commission on Human Rights). Hatrick has picked up many Native women on the streets of British Columbia including this woman who he found on the streets of New Westminster. Hatrick offered to prostitute her to other men too:

‘Headed to New West and was passing 8th, going west on Royal and a chick turned around with her thumb out! I was gonna pass her by, but something clicked my stop the car stupid, reflex! Could have been her long flowing hair or something in her demeanor, she was happy I stopped and cheerfully jumped in! She was a Native chick and she had a nice set of boobs, really filled out her low cut sweater, maybe that’s why I stopped, hmm!…… By me smokes and give me $35 and I’ll fuck you really good she says, Wow this is great, she’s got me all excited whoohoo! I hit the petro can and get some smokes, help yourself to some donuts I tell her. I got some earlier because I’ve noticed some of the girls seem kinda hungry and they all love donuts!………………..Fuck, she was nice and snug and I could feel her cunt spazzaming and she was shuddering, that was it for me. I pounded away and blew a monster gusher! Wow, that was the best cheap fuck I’ve had in years! She was in her late 30’s and not bad lookin. Would you like to make some money fuckin some of my friends I ask her, are you going to be around for awhile? She’s fishin with her stuff and had a few American $ in her pocket, well I may stay in Canada a bit longer if I made some money, but I’m not a prostitute you know. That’s OK, you don’t have to be, if you had a phone I could send you some of my friends and you could make a few bucks without having to go out hookin!’ – (Royal Avenue, New Westminster – November 2006

A few months earlier in Vancouver, he picked up a Native woman who needed money for her daughter, and who was a user of crack cocaine:

‘I headed south on Clarke and by Napier, a few native chicks, one caught my eye. Spun around the block and in she hops, fuck she looked good on the first pass but shit, she looked bad sittin next to me. I forgot I should never have more than 3 tokes, this good shit affected my radar not in a good way! I tried to get her to get out, and she said she needed money for her daughter, I am a soft touch and thought, what the hell they can’t all be lookers, she might have a nice pussy! She offered me a BJ for a 10 spot, naw I may want to bang ya, we park and she does a hoot off her crack pipe and tells me $30, what a deal. I give her the $ and she takes forever to drop her drawers, I can’t she says I’m on the pad! Well I asked you if you could and you said yes, the fair thing since I don’t want a BJ, is for you to keep the 10 and give me back the 20. To my amazement she had no problem with that and gave it back, she was cool and earned my respect, even a cheap HO can be an honest provider.’

Getting women into prostitution

Not all of the women Hatrick uses are prostituted. He also offers rides to women then talks them into prostitution in his car. In one PERB conversation a different john asks ‘Has Anyone Ever Tried To Pay For Sex From a Girl That Wasn’t An SP [SP = Service Provider]?‘, Hatrick replies:

‘I’ve gone thru this scenario a few times in the past and it’s not always great. I picked up a chick at the 7/11 at 64 & Scott rd she was real nice and wanted a ride home. We got to talking and she wanted to make money, I suggested I pay her for some poon, she’d never done it but she did. Once she got down to it and I had my dick in her she seemed horrified that I would think she was a prostitute. I’m not a hooker, I’m not a hooker just wanted to make some $$ kept saying afterward. Don’t worry about it, I told her. Same thing happened with a gal I picked up at the Lynwood in North Van, it seems they think about doing it but once they are gettin fucked for $$ it freaks em out they are doing it. Winds up not being a very good fuck but it is kind of a turn on that you talked some babe into bangin you for a few bucks.’

Those weren’t the only times:

‘I picked up a very cute coffee girl at the casino when she got off work to give her a ride home, she was Russian. She told me she didn’t make enough money if I knew where a better job was available, I told her I regularity pick up girls and pay them for sex. Long story short after parking for an hour talking to her I pulled out 4 greens [4 greens = $80] and ravished a very lovely young thing.’ 

Impoverished women present an opportunity to this man. After letting one prostituted woman keep his flashlight for $20, he muses:

‘…Wonder what else I can sell these chicks, and jew em down on the price. She was hungry too mabe next time I’ll cruise with the leftovers from the fridge and crap I want to get rid of, kind of crap for crack, Hmmm, that’s it!..’ – 104th Avenue, Surrey, BC, February 2004 NB: Hatrick often takes women to Surrey Central Inn on 104th Avenue

Law Enforcement

Considering Hatrick’s decades-long use of prostituted women in BC, you’d expect him to have run into the police over the years, and he has. He’s received a stack of ‘Dear John letters‘ which he describes as a ‘very vague’ letter ‘addressed to you and asks for your cooperation combating prostitution.’ Though the prospect of these letters arriving at the family home may terrify other johns, Hatrick isn’t worried. He considers his wife to be under control and spent Father’s Day of 2006 cruising near Downtown Eastside Vancouver with his unwitting family in the car:

‘Pretty tough to get out there on fathers day, but I managed to get in a tour with the family, wife, kids, my parents and all. After a nice meal, went to the River Rock casino and then drove thru Vancouver and did a criuse thru Low track, scared the kids with what drugs can do, my parents lamented on how great Hastings used to be, the wife said; look at the disgusting whores, I was lookin alright. I actually spotted a couple o hotties that I would like to check out, it’s not all bad down there. We’ll see what shakes this week if I have time!’ 

The Law Enforcement at Border Crossing have also taken an interest in him more than once. On one occasion a young female officer took his phone and found it full of graphic photographs of prostituted women: ‘The thing was full of beaver pics from Ho’s I’d picked up’. They let him go without incident. On another occasion he was handcuffed because ‘they found a machete in my truck along with a bush saw and an axe. I explained that I spent a lot of time in the woods.’ 

Vancouver Police Department and Bill C36

Hatrick’s years of hunting in British Columbia could potentially have come to an end with the Protection of Communities and Exploited Persons Act, known as Bill C36 which came into force in Canada on December 6th 2014. As of that date Canada’s federal law criminalizes johns while (in most, but not all, instances) decriminalizing prostituted women.

Unfortunately, the City of Vancouver and Vancouver Police Department have announced that enforcement of the new law is not a priority. When asked ‘if Vancouver police will be mounting sting operations against buyers of sex, [Const. Brian] Montague responded: “If you read our policy…I think the best way to put it is enforcement is a last resort for us.”’ The policy is Sex Work Enforcement Guidelines,. It has not been updated since 2013.

This means that the men in British Columbia know that their consumption of the prostituted can continue uninterrupted, “especially in VPD territory”. Fred Zed, one of the men who runs PERB.cc (Pacific and Prarie Escort Review Boards) reassures concerned johns in the forum: 

I would say that the odds that you’ll be busted are about the same as you winning Lottomax this year”

“Happy Hunting”

It’s 2015 and it’s business as usual for Hatrick. He is still gambling to win his trick money: 

‘Scrotum the God of Poon and Blackjack was shinin his light on me, I went on to have an awesome session with another fave and afterward hit the Boulevard Casino where the $25 table coughed up all my poon $$$ plus an extra 300 bucks. So it wound up being a very good nite indeed, I still have another wad to spend and seem to be in TOFTT [TOFTT = Take One For The Team]  mode, wish me luck!’ – posted 10th March 2015 

And he is still using prostituted women in British Columbia:

‘You can’t touch she says, you can’t kiss the titties, WTF that was a real downer. Well I tried to bang her but she holds your dick so you can’t really get in there… If the gals won’t give themselves to you its a very uncomfortable feeling like you are forcing yourself on them. You may be able to do her if you get off on blow jobs, get good and hard then fuck her it would be awesome to skewer that big clit puss.’ Motel on King George Highway, Surrey BC – also posted on 10th March 2015

 

*A note on abbreviations: Where Hatrick writes ‘SW’s’ it stands for “Street Walkers”, not “Sex Workers”. 

**Trivia: Hatrick is a U2 fan. U2 have two concert dates in British Columbia in 2015: Thursday the 14th and Friday the 15th of May in Rogers Arena, Vancouver. Hatrick recently asked johns where he could get tickets for the Friday show.  Hatrick has purchased four tickets to see U2 at Rogers Arena, Vancouver on Friday the 15th of May 2015. He will be in the upper deck, row three, on the end facing the stage. Do you know who Hatrick is?

Posted in Bill C36, Burnaby, Hatrick, johns, New Westminster, Surrey, Surrey RCMP, the john lobby, Vancouver, VPD | 8 Comments

Chris Atchison – Johns’ Voice

Meet Chris Atchison

drdick

Chris is a research associate at the University of Victoria in British Columbia, Canada.

Special interest: Johns.

Chris regards himself as an expert in this area (elephant in the room) and puts himself forward as such to the media and policy makers.

Chris’ goal is to create a community identity for johns to convince the public that they are a richly diverse yet impossible-to-define tapestry of nice complex gentlemen. A community that absolutely MUST be consulted about prostitution law and policy.

To misrepresent johns as predators is to punish good men, and to criminalize those men means that WOMEN WILL DIE. 

Is that what you want?

The Justice Committee hearing – Canada

On 9 July 2014, Chris appeared before the Justice Committee examining Bill C-36, to present evidence that johns are nice and that context kills women. He drew from his two studies: Johns’ Voice and the Sex Safety Security project

Chris’ opening statement was [paraphrased]:

I would like to make it clear that I do not represent any individual, group or organisation. I am here to discuss my empirical research. I have conducted two of the biggest pieces of research of those involved in the buying of consensual adult services.”

In fact, Chris is a ‘well known member of the sex buying community’. In that he arranges ‘Pooner Meetings’, strategizes with the johns, and calls them to action.

Chris is a member of Canadian prostitution forums MERB (Montreal Escort Review Boards), PERB (Pacific and Prairie Escort Review Boards) and TERB (Toronto Escort Review Boards).

Some of his usernames are:  johnsvoice  sexsafesecure sexsafetysecurity 

Pooners Meeting:

In February 2013, Chris and Susan Davis* (‘susi’) began organising a ‘Pooners Meeting‘ for men to discuss what they want from the prostitution of women and how to fight against the Nordic Model.

This meeting took place on 29 April 2013 at SFU Harbor Center, in downtown Vancouver.

Chris and Susan planning the Pooners Meeting

Pooners Meeting Report Part 1 and Part 2 and Part 3 and Part 4

Post-Pooner Meeting Rallying Call from Chris

More interesting forum chat from Chris:

‘My Strategy’ ‘It’s not that I have faith in the voting public at all, or in democracy. I am an anarchist’…

‘Members of the sex buying community have to step up and be included if anything is to be done’: 

The Nordic Model violates the freedoms of sex buyers

Would you prefer to be represented by John’s Voice, or The Invisible Men project?

‘What I saw in John School – men whose only crime was that they didn’t know enough about the industry to be able to purchase sex in a way that didn’t involve communicating in a public place’ – Part 1

‘What I saw in John School – men whose only crime was that they didn’t know enough about the industry to be able to purchase sex in a way that didn’t involve communicating in a public place’ – Part 2

2009 Johns voice is a grad student trying to give johns a makeover so he can petition to legalize the act 

Johns’ Voice and Sex Safety Security Project – Victimization of Men

Chris’ credentials are two studies called Johns’ Voice and the Sex Safety Security project. In these studies, using a questionnaire, Chris asks 2000+ men who use women in prostitution to indicate whether they consider themselves to be exploitative abusers. Around 2000+ men said ‘nope’.

Just to be sure, Chris personally selects another 50-ish fine patrons to have a sympathetic man-to-man chat with interview. He finds that they also think highly of themselves. You can read the report here.

Once you get accustomed to the neutralized language obscuring who’s doing what to whom in prostitution in his studies (commercial sex partner, people involved in transactional sex etc), Chris’ findings are remarkable.

Not only do men self-report that they are not rapists or misogynists, but they are frequently the victimized party in prostitution. They are ‘economically victimized’ which in john terms means – they do not always get what they paid for.

He reveals: ‘When victimization was experienced it most often (42.9% or n=365) took the form of not receiving services paid for’ Chris doesn’t explain why he considers the term victimization to be appropriate. Especially considering the privileged demographic of his respondents:

‘The men are well-educated with over one-third indicating that they have completed university education at varying levels. Most of them are gainfully employed in a variety of different occupations and earning, on average, more than $60,000 per annum. Like their interview counterparts, the majority of the questionnaire respondents could be classified as ‘experienced’ sex-buyers, with most participants indicating that they had paid for sex 100 times in their life. Overall, the demographic background of both the questionnaire and interview sample could best be described as reflective of the class, ethnic, cultural and political majority in Canada (i.e., middle class, Caucasian, heterosexual and male).’ – p.37 Johns’ Voice Report

Presumably Chris feels that their wealth and status will cast men who hobby in a favorable light. They’re just your average wealthy educated entitled guy (like Chris).

Still, Chris wants us to take male victimization seriously and not diminish these self -reports:

‘It is apparent that victimization is a two-way street, and it will likely continue to be as long as we force the people buying and selling sex to do so within the context of an underground economy. There is good reason to believe that understanding these contexts will not only help reduce the victimization experienced by sex buyers, but it will help us understand and reduce the victimization reported by sex workers’ p.34 Johns’ Voice Report

So, if violence exists at all in prostitution – something Chris considers to be entirely dubious, then we all know it is the fault of: contexts; stigma; moralists; feminists (see moralists); legislation; the government; law enforcement, bad luck, and…a tiny minority of wicked rapists masquerading as johns (i.e. they never intended to pay) who will go into predatory overdrive if you don’t stop your moral panic and walk away.

In pretending that men and the women they prostitute are equally positioned and at equal risk of exploitation, Chris hopes to generate a kind of societal Stockholm syndrome. You cannot challenge HIM, without harming HER. Unless you want WOMEN TO DIE.

Why do you want women to die?

Regulation

What Chris is really getting at, is that when prostitution is regulated, women are better controlled. When women are more easily controlled and men get to hobby in comfort, men will be happier and less compelled to be violent.

For example; Let’s say a man client orders DFK (deep french kiss), FS (full sex), BBBJ (bareback blowjob – no condom) and CIM (cum in mouth) from the menu at his chosen stable establishment, and the woman service provider takes his $150 but in the end refuses CIM – that man is being economically victimized.

Never mind if he’s a wealthy businessman indulging his ‘hobby’ while his wife is out of town and his ‘provider’ is tired, has kids to feed, barely speaks English or knew she couldn’t fight the urge to vomit if she let him DT CIMWS (deepthroat cum in mouth with swallow).

If properly regulated and rules of commerce apply, that poor oppressed patron would get his CIM, or receive a satisfactory alternative for his hard-earned dollars and be properly compensated with a discount or a freebie on the house. No violence necessary to get his money’s worth or his money back. Not only that, she would have to pay tax on his donation as is right and proper for someone receiving HIS cash.

Chris wants regulation, because it will benefit men, and the john ‘community’. Chris Atchison is trying to build a political platform for misogynists and rapists.

Just research, Chris?

*Susan Davis is a pro-prostitution lobbyist who promotes johns rights and acts as an advocate for them with media police and local authoritiesErslist.com, a prostitution listings website, pay her monthly for her work. She works hard to promote Chris and his message that johns are victimized in prostitution and that men getting ripped-off – economic exploitation! – is a real issue.

The man thanking her at the bottom of this page is Hatrick, he is John #8 in the Invisible Men Project Canada. His comment to Susi was posted prior to the tabling of Bill C-36, when he thought his hobbying would be decriminalized and even more prolific.

Posted in Bill C36, British Columbia, Chris Atchison, Johns Voice, Sex Safety Security, the john lobby, University of Victoria, Victoria | 4 Comments